WootBot


quality posts: 14 Private Messages WootBot

Staff

Poll: How much do you feel bad about juvenile offenders?
  • 4.4% - Very. Kids who are criminals just need guidance, is all. 59
  • 9.9% - A lot. Society should offer more options for them. 134
  • 34.1% - 50/50. Like, I feel bad for ‘em, but they didn’t HAVE to commit a crime. 461
  • 27.7% - Very little. I don’t want ‘em in supermax or anything but the law is the law. 374
  • 17.5% - 0%. See ya, bad guys. 236
  • 6.4% - My feelings are more complex than these choices and I’ll answer in the comments. 86
1350 votes

Well, how do you fare compared to the Zeitgeist? Chat up your fellow wooters and let us know how lame this poll was or what obvious choices we missed. For example: Was this poll a) STUPID, b) DUMB, c) POINTLESS or d) ALL OF THE ABOVE?

ckeilah


quality posts: 149 Private Messages ckeilah

They should have sent Bubble Girl to the gas chamber! ZERO TOLERANCE!!!



Make any mistake, get removed from the gene pool. We have 7+ billion others waiting for your place in the queue. There's no room for anyone short of PERFECTION out of the womb, or test tube.

Please do not increment my Quality Posts count. 69 is a good place to be. ;-)
MOD: We had to...we just HAD TO...

curtisuxor


quality posts: 56 Private Messages curtisuxor

I assume this is in reference to the Steubenville terrible act (word was filtered) case.

Looking more closely at the heinousness of the crimes and as more details were revealed, the worse it got. At their best, everyone even remotely involved displayed malicious apathy and at their worst, sociopathic deviancy. These two kids bore the brunt of the blame, but so many other kids deserve to be put in jail for their part in this; whether it was being present during the terrible act and not doing anything, the sharing of the photos, the absurdly arrogant comments and everyone along the way who failed to stop the situation from getting worse or failing to inform an adult.

This is not just a failure on the part of the now-convicted criminals, who have to wear this mark of shame for the rest of their lives, but on their parents, their teachers and the whole high school football mentality/culture that gives these kids all the praise in the world and freedom from repercussions of their actions.

I cannot comprehend how their moral compass allowed them to not feel shame or guilt over what they did--until they got into a courtroom. They really deserve worse than they got. I cannot believe they were treated as juveniles when someone not on the high school football team would have been tried as an adult. I guarantee if it was some kid who wore black every day to school, he would have been tried as an adult. I guarantee if it was a kid suspected of being in a gang, he would have been tried as an adult.

I ask you what is the difference between gang members and high school football players? On Friday nights, one of these groups get together, violently hurt other people and celebrate with alcohol and drugs afterward. The other group is gang members.

epbookraider


quality posts: 0 Private Messages epbookraider

As a high school teacher, the solution is quite simple. Punish parents, juvenile crime disappears. There is something seriously wrong with a family who raises a valediction that goes to jail two months before graduation. If parents are heavily fined, monetarily or temporally, for not doing their job, I'm certain we would see an upswing in parenting skills and a downswing in juvenile crime.

epbookraider


quality posts: 0 Private Messages epbookraider

Parents are certainly culpable when their child commits a crime. We have certainly put athletes and celebrities on some kind of pedestal in our society. But, blaming the teachers of this nation for the ills of society is stupid. My job, of which I'm not even paid my full salary anymore, is to teach 12th graders to write well and analyze the hell out of the amazing language of George Orwell. Their bad habits and disrespectful bullspit is learned and perpetuated in their homes. In other words, get the hell off my nuts. I didn't birth them and I sure as hell didn't raise them. The absolute best solution here is to shut down all public education and leave the teaching to the parents, and public, of this great country-Orwellian style!


assume this is in reference to the Steubenville terrible act (word was filtered) case.

Looking more closely at the heinousness of the crimes and as more details were revealed, the worse it got. At their best, everyone even remotely involved displayed malicious apathy and at their worst, sociopathic deviancy. These two kids bore the brunt of the blame, but so many other kids deserve to be put in jail for their part in this; whether it was being present during the terrible act and not doing anything, the sharing of the photos, the absurdly arrogant comments and everyone along the way who failed to stop the situation from getting worse or failing to inform an adult.

This is not just a failure on the part of the now-convicted criminals, who have to wear this mark of shame for the rest of their lives, but on their parents, their teachers and the whole high school football mentality/culture that gives these kids all the praise in the world and freedom from repercussions of their actions.

I cannot comprehend how their moral compass allowed them to not feel shame or guilt over what they did--until they got into a courtroom. They really deserve worse than they got. I cannot believe they were treated as juveniles when someone not on the high school football team would have been tried as an adult. I guarantee if it was some kid who wore black every day to school, he would have been tried as an adult. I guarantee if it was a kid suspected of being in a gang, he would have been tried as an adult.

I ask you what is the difference between gang members and high school football players? On Friday nights, one of these groups get together, violently hurt other people and celebrate with alcohol and drugs afterward. The other group is gang members.[/quote]

opaulw


quality posts: 1 Private Messages opaulw

Way to much violence on TV, Video games, and Rap "music". all of which is a huge influence on young people. Too much freedom, drugs, no parental guidance.
Say what you may all of the above are creating the eventual breakdown of law abiding society.

Also I agree with the other posts prior to mine


By the way why haven't they arrested the adults who supplied the booze. They are just as guilty as the 2 boys, if not more so.

Woot count = 70+




cebii


quality posts: 3 Private Messages cebii
epbookraider wrote:As a high school teacher, the solution is quite simple. Punish parents, juvenile crime disappears. There is something seriously wrong with a family who raises a valediction that goes to jail two months before graduation. If parents are heavily fined, monetarily or temporally, for not doing their job, I'm certain we would see an upswing in parenting skills and a downswing in juvenile crime.



Lots of parents don't really know how to parent. I've done foster care, for which I had to take tons of training and be certified, then I adopted and had to be certified as capable again.

That doesn't make me a perfect parent, of course, but has given me a base to start from, as well as time for a lot of study and introspection.

People should have to be licensed to have kids.

mjc613


quality posts: 47 Private Messages mjc613

I think you have to take juvenile offenders on a case by case basis.

melb


quality posts: 0 Private Messages melb

It seems like a lot of people want to blame the parents, but we cannot put every person into the same category. It is not always the parents fault. Yes, some people should not be allowed to be parents and they have children who eventually become juvenile delinquents. But, as I have seen first hand, some of the best parents lose their children to the influence of their friends. I've seen parents try everything from hoping more space will work to the other extreme of having them on lock down. Well, as parents there are things that we can control and there will come a point in time where parents lose this control. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that I have seen amazing parents raise amazing children, until one of them goes in the wrong direction. Well, what about the other children that are doing just fine? Are we still blaming the parents for managing to screw up one out of three? No! This one became uncontrollable regardless of the parents efforts. Usually, when things like this happen, children already know right from wrong. Parents are no longer to blame...

thumperchick


quality posts: 236 Private Messages thumperchick

Since we seem to be talking about Stubenville, I'll address that specifically.

In this case, there are 2 young men who are being blamed and slightly punished. But there was an entire community involved in the trauma of that girl. Everyone who created the culture that their sports team was more important than anything else, that girls should supplicate themselves to the players. That parents, teachers, cops, coaches should look the other way. Children taught to not speak out for someone being hurt, because they are afraid of being hurt themselves.

Every last person involved that night was an offender, was responsible for what happened to that girl. Unfortunately, we don't have laws on the books for being a coward, apathetic, or just miserable, sh*thole of a human being.

To the original question - I have empathy for young offenders, because most of the time, it means someone failed them. Do I think they should be treated with a gentle hand? Nope. I do think we should find a way to make the parents also serve a sentence, that way maybe, just maybe, someone will learn the concept of personal responsibility.

note2001


quality posts: 25 Private Messages note2001

I used to think that every child starts off as inherently innocent, until I met the devil child himself.

ckeilah


quality posts: 149 Private Messages ckeilah
note2001 wrote:I used to think that every child starts off as inherently innocent, until I met the devil child himself.



We've met? Funny, I don't recall setting you on fire....

Please do not increment my Quality Posts count. 69 is a good place to be. ;-)
MOD: We had to...we just HAD TO...

RKett


quality posts: 2 Private Messages RKett

I've been following this all weekend and I just want to throw this out there. There are nutjob cultures we all hear about where the father stones or kills his daughter in an "honor killing". This concept of family honor boggles my mind, but I can guarantee if this had been my son, I would take him out myself and probably myself after, that kind of family honor I can get.

dellagalvin


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dellagalvin
epbookraider wrote:As a high school teacher, the solution is quite simple. Punish parents, juvenile crime disappears. There is something seriously wrong with a family who raises a valediction that goes to jail two months before graduation. If parents are heavily fined, monetarily or temporally, for not doing their job, I'm certain we would see an upswing in parenting skills and a downswing in juvenile crime.



The parents cannot always be blamed. We have two girls raised in the same house and they are almost exact opposites. Influence and friend choice played a large part in why our oldest child acted out, talked back, and didn't care about school. Her bad influence was the child of a teacher and a deacon at our church. She was constantly in trouble due to the influence of this one girl. Even not letting them hang out with each other didn't help because they were in the same classes and church functions together. After graduation and the influence was gone - she was a totally different person. Now our youngest chose better friends and she's allowed more freedom than her sister was because she can be trusted more. She is an honor student, a leader in her school, and about to go off to college. These girls were both raised the same way, but it was their choices that made them different.

My brother and I were the same way. He had plenty of opportunites to be a good person, but he chose the wrong path and blamed parents and everyone else for his downfall. I chose NOT to go down the wrong path even though I had plenty of opportunities and reasons. I graduated 5th in my class and my husband and I have been married almost 29 years.

beenyweeny


quality posts: 0 Private Messages beenyweeny
mjc613 wrote:I think you have to take juvenile offenders on a case by case basis.



Totally agree

gigi889


quality posts: 3 Private Messages gigi889
mjc613 wrote:I think you have to take juvenile offenders on a case by case basis.



I agree~too many variabls.

packratpatty


quality posts: 1 Private Messages packratpatty

Working for the past 30 years in the criminal justice field, I see both sides of the debate. If the kids did something incredibly stupid...like kids do (and like I did and didn't get caught) then I feel pretty sorry for them and hope they don't get in a whole lotta trouble but if they are predators and cause great pain or loss to some innocent victim I hope they get in a lot of trouble.

straderlaura


quality posts: 0 Private Messages straderlaura

Polling options were incredibly inadequate.

It may help to know where I'm coming from, my husband works in the Juvenile Justice System which means I get to hear a lot from that side of the story.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on each separate polling option:

1) Very. Kids who are criminals just need guidance, is all.
While I feel very bad for juvenile offenders, I do NOT agree that they "just need guidance". Juvenile offenders do need to be held accountable for their actions.

Depending on the definition of guidance many juvenile offenders would respond greatly to some sort of guidance in their life. There are many programs and facilities that offer guidance and life skills.

Quite a few juvenile offenders offend because they did not and do not receive the necessary guidance in their life to succeed. This is not an excuse and they should still be punished for their actions, but guidance may be just what a particular offender needs to prevent recidivism.

2) A lot. Society should offer more options for them.
Society DOES offer many and more options, but I feel that the majority of people do not know about these options. So that alone is a problem.

3) 50/50. Like, I feel bad for ‘em, but they didn’t HAVE to commit a crime.
The only part I don't agree with in this option is "50/50. Like," I don't like the use of "like" because it sounds ridiculous and immature (completely beside the point).

I do feel bad for the juvenile offender because they must deal with the consequences of their actions. But I do not feel bad that the consequences exist.

And of course they didn't "HAVE" to commit the crime, but we as individuals do not HAVE to do anything. So that just seems like an excuse not to think about this issue.

4) Very little. I don’t want ‘em in supermax or anything but the law is the law.
There is a supermax for juveniles and a separate supermax for adults. And some juveniles really do need to be in supermax for the safety of themselves and for others.

And the last one 0%. See ya, bad guys. I just don't care to comment on.

Those are my thoughts.



soullessecho


quality posts: 0 Private Messages soullessecho

I think we should start punishing the parents.

curtisuxor


quality posts: 56 Private Messages curtisuxor
epbookraider wrote:Parents are certainly culpable when their child commits a crime. We have certainly put athletes and celebrities on some kind of pedestal in our society. But, blaming the teachers of this nation for the ills of society is stupid. My job, of which I'm not even paid my full salary anymore, is to teach 12th graders to write well and analyze the hell out of the amazing language of George Orwell. Their bad habits and disrespectful bullspit is learned and perpetuated in their homes. In other words, get the hell off my nuts. I didn't birth them and I sure as hell didn't raise them. The absolute best solution here is to shut down all public education and leave the teaching to the parents, and public, of this great country-Orwellian style!



curtisuxor wrote:This is not just a failure on the part of the now-convicted criminals, who have to wear this mark of shame for the rest of their lives, but on their parents, their teachers and the whole high school football mentality/culture that gives these kids all the praise in the world and freedom from repercussions of their actions.

1. For someone who supposedly critiques writing and grammar for a living, you missed this entire part and only honed in on the word "teacher". Perhaps you have some kind of selective attention disorder which prohibits you from being able to factor in something called "context". Further, the word "their" appears before "teachers" because it is not a blanket statement about all teachers, but rather those teachers at that school, particularly the ones that taught those students on the football team.

2. You must be teaching in some kind of bubble to have never heard of teachers giving student athletes passes. Missing assignments receiving grades, boosting test scores to raise a student athlete's GPA to remain high enough to play on the team, giving extra credit only to these kids and all the other bending-over-backwards stuff they pull is all part for the course in a high school that worships football. The teachers are culpable because of how much they feed into a student athlete feeling entitled.

3. Compare how many hours a day a student spends at a school vs. how many hours they spend at home with their parents. Who is really rearing these teenagers? All teachers sign up knowing full well they are role models and mentors because of the amount of time they spend with the kids. Part of the agreement with being a teacher is to guide these children not just educationally but also socially. You are teaching in the 12th grade, which means you are supposed to be preparing these kids for the rest of their lives as well as for college.

4. You are supposedly an English (composition, perhaps?) teacher yet you use words like "bullspit" and phrases like "get the hell off my nuts" (come to think of it, you appear to be more like an UNcreative writing teacher). I'm glad I never had someone like you ever teach me.

5. Teaching is a passion and not just a profession. If you don't love to teach, reaching out to kids and actually caring about their success in the future, you are doing it wrong. Get out of the business, because you aren't cut out for it. The first thing you bring up about your teaching experience is your paycut. If cashing a paycheck is all you care about, teaching was obviously the wrong career.

Surprise, I am also a teacher.

straderlaura


quality posts: 0 Private Messages straderlaura
curtisuxor wrote:1. For someone who supposedly critiques writing and grammar for a living, you missed this entire part and only honed in on the word "teacher". Perhaps you have some kind of selective attention disorder which prohibits you from being able to factor in something called "context". Further, the word "their" appears before "teachers" because it is not a blanket statement about all teachers, but rather those teachers at that school, particularly the ones that taught those students on the football team.

2. You must be teaching in some kind of bubble to have never heard of teachers giving student athletes passes. Missing assignments receiving grades, boosting test scores to raise a student athlete's GPA to remain high enough to play on the team, giving extra credit only to these kids and all the other bending-over-backwards stuff they pull is all part for the course in a high school that worships football. The teachers are culpable because of how much they feed into a student athlete feeling entitled.

3. Compare how many hours a day a student spends at a school vs. how many hours they spend at home with their parents. Who is really rearing these teenagers? All teachers sign up knowing full well they are role models and mentors because of the amount of time they spend with the kids. Part of the agreement with being a teacher is to guide these children not just educationally but also socially. You are teaching in the 12th grade, which means you are supposed to be preparing these kids for the rest of their lives as well as for college.

4. You are supposedly an English (composition, perhaps?) teacher yet you use words like "bullspit" and phrases like "get the hell off my nuts" (come to think of it, you appear to be more like an UNcreative writing teacher). I'm glad I never had someone like you ever teach me.

5. Teaching is a passion and not just a profession. If you don't love to teach, reaching out to kids and actually caring about their success in the future, you are doing it wrong. Get out of the business, because you aren't cut out for it. The first thing you bring up about your teaching experience is your paycut. If cashing a paycheck is all you care about, teaching was obviously the wrong career.

Surprise, I am also a teacher.



Well said.