I'm okay with it in erotic novels, but not on kids.

I was thinking of another kind of spanking...

I'll just mosey over to shirt woot. Oh look dinosaurs...

I think that it is a very effective means of correction. Then again, I am one of those nuts who believes the Bible too. I think the proverb about "spare the rod, spoil the child" holds true based on my own life, seeing how my kids are turning out, and seeing how others have turned out.

jchamber93 wrote:I think that it is a very effective means of correction. Then again, I am one of those nuts who believes the Bible too. I think the proverb about "spare the rod, spoil the child" holds true based on my own life, seeing how my kids are turning out, and seeing how others have turned out.

I'm with you, but just to play devil's advocate, could "the rod" not also be any other form of punishment?

dymongoose wrote:I'm with you, but just to play devil's advocate, could "the rod" not also be any other form of punishment?

I would say yes. And while our family is a "no-spanking" house, the research doesn't necessarily say that spanking is NOT effective, just that it isn't any MORE effective than non-corporal punishment. So I think the point of that verse is not saying that you have to use an actual, physical "rod" but that you employ some form of discipline.

wow. I am only hoping that all the other replies up to this point are jokes. Really?
Violence is violence.

akandiko wrote:wow. I am only hoping that all the other replies up to this point are jokes. Really?
Violence is violence.

Thank you, Akandiko. I totally agree. Unfortunately, I don't think they are joking. The fact that this is still legal and practiced in many states means many agree with it, and it's no joke. What it is, though, is a very sad statement about society. Children are not treated like full human beings with the right to be protected from bodily harm the way the rest of us are by the law. We have even done away with judicial corporal punishment in the US, so inmates are protected, but our children are not.

I think parental corporal punishment should be illegal (and treated just like spousal abuse), too.

akandiko wrote:wow. I am only hoping that all the other replies up to this point are jokes. Really?
Violence is violence.

What exactly is wrong with violence anyway? In the appropriate situation it's a useful survival tool.

It always bugs me when people use trite sayings like "Violence never solves anything." Violence most certainly solve some things... and in admittedly limited circumstances it is entirely appropriate.

There's also the axiom that "Spanking teaches kids it's OK to modify peoples behavior with violence.."

Well, yes. It is sometimes OK to modify peoples behavior with violence. Stranger dragging your daughter in to an alley? I want her to modify the hell out of that guys behavior with violence!

A child who is *never* exposed to violence has no learned tools with which to deal with it.

That being said... I don't think spankings are for drawing on the wall.... only for life/death or danger to themselves or others. Playing in a puddle, no. Fingers in a light socket.... yes.

Aren't schools for teaching? Well if my boss can't spank me for not getting my assignment in on time why should the school teach my kid that spanking is a permitted form of discipline?

I think if anyone at her school paddled my kid, they'd get a paddling of their own. After all, they feel it's appropriate, right?!

I was never spanked, and turned out well raised, educated, polite blah blah.... My kids are 5 & 6 and they are disciplined without violence. They know I am strict, but I would never, ever hit them. I think it's disgusting that parents who don't have the patience to figure out a different way of disciplining their children, so they just whack the sense into them. You are not changing their behavior just making the child scared of the parent. Studies have proven again and again that hitting your child leaves emotional scars.

yort5thor wrote:the research doesn't necessarily say that spanking is NOT effective, just that it isn't any MORE effective than non-corporal punishment.

This may be true, but that's because punishment isn't effective. Positive reinforcement is effective. It's just really difficult to do when your children are wearing you down.

I was spanked as a child - for things I deserved - and I don't know that it has harmed me. It is an immediate 'reward', so to speak and, if administered properly, the pain becomes a good deterrent to future destructive behaviors. I think that in today's society too many parents want to be a child's friend and not his/her parent, forgetting that respect must precede love. We now have a society permeated with unruly children who scream and holler all through the store. It used to be that one could go to the store and only on rare occasions hear a child throw a fit. But I don't remember the last time I went to the store and WASN'T serenaded by the banshee sounds of a child in the throes of having a fit over something or other. Children are growing into adults who don't know the meaning of 'wait' or 'don't do that' or whatever else that might be good for them but takes a little self-discipline. That said, I believe that spankings should be few and far between but sometimes I think it's called for. For instance, the neighbor whose daughter would NOT quite riding her tricycle into the street. Children of an early age don't have the ability for complex reasoning. They have to be taught how to reason. That's why immediate results work best at first. For this particular child when the mother put her back on the driveway and explained that she could be run over by a car, the child yelled at her mom and went back into the street. This went on for quite a while with the child becoming more and more violent and disrespectful with each successive turn. The end result being that the child rode her tricycle in the streets with the mom standing around looking defeated. I think this is what is meant in the proverb, "He who spares the rod hates his own son." In my opinion the mom should have done one of two things: Take the child into the house and put the child in her lap and hold her still (so that she can't hurt herself or the mom) and hold her there until she quits screaming. THEN and only then, put the child in a 5 minute time out for her behavior. (If the child decides to 'scream herself out' this could take an hour or more.) The mom (or dad) would have to do this each and every time the child did threw a fit - which would be quite a few times because allowing a child to scream and throw a fit is a positive reward of sorts: It's an adrenaline rush. That's why the child does it for so long. Until they come down from that self-induced high, they won't stop. Nor will they stop their self-destructive behaviors until this scenario has repeated itself several times. This type of reward/result takes the child so far from the original scene as to require more repetitions and can only be done when the child is of an age that the parent is able to hold the child. The other choice the mom had, in this situation, is to paddle her. An age appropriate paddling would deliver a mild sting which is NOT an adrenaline rush but which IS an immediate negative reward so that she doesn't want to repeat that particular action soon. It only takes a time or two (for most children) and the child takes herself in hand and says, "Self, we're not doing that again. That's not fun." Thus, self-discipline is born. I can still remember the ONLY time I threw a fit in a store. My mom took me out of the store and paddled my bottom (my mom knew that creating a scene in the store was not showing respect to the store owner nor his other customers.) I was about 5 at the time. I don't remember the pain of the spanking. What I do remember is being mortified at being spanked in public. I never did it again.

As for teens, if you haven't taught the child self-discipline by the time they're 13, you're fighting a difficult battle. By the time a child is a teenager, the child is old enough to reason. Listening and asking the right questions goes a long way. I believe that disrespect should not be tolerated. If a child screams, "I hate you." It's not the end of the world if that child can't play football or soccer, in the next game. Saying, "I don't appreciate being treated disrespectfully and I refuse to do anything for someone who treats me that way" is not unreasonable. The child should always apologize BUT don't give in and take them to the game. That child NEEDS the reward. You may be the person who teaches them to respect his/her spouse or boss.

Paraphrasing Poor Richard: First teach your child obedience, then teach what you will.

In ancient times, obedience to one's parents often made the difference between life and death. It still does, just not from immediate dangers having sharp teeth.

Using mild physical violence to enforce teaching obedience is a small reflection of this and I think it speaks to the forming mind of a child on an instinctive level, saying "Do as I tell you, or there will be painful consequences" and "This world is full of painful consequences for ill-considered actions, so think before you act."

I've spanked my son once, and only once--when he was about 3, he adamantly refused to take the medication he was prescribed--and spat it out, on me, to boot. So I first held him on the couch, and told him he couldn't get up until he took it. An hour passed. Another hour passed. At least he'd stopped screaming--but still refused.

Finally I said, "Look, here's your choice: you can take the medicine, or I'm going to spank you once. Then I'll offer it again. Refuse, and you're getting 2 whacks. See the pattern?"

First time, he refused. Flip, swat, flip. "Wanna take it?" Refusal. Flip, swat, swat, flip. "Wanna take it?" Refusal. Flip, swat, swat, swat, flip. "Wanna take it?"
"Okay"
..."Hey, that didn't taste bad."

"Okay, now go to bed. Daddy's going to go downstairs, pour himself a stiff drink, have a smoke, and beat his head against the wall until he passes out."

Never had to spank him again. Simple fact of the matter is, every kid is different. With my son, he walks all over his mom--unless I'm home. I'm somehow the disciplinarian, even though I'm also the bad influence ("Daddy, can we go shoot bottle rockets?" "Hell yeah, lemme grab a beer and my zippo!")

I don't even raise my voice; it's actually kind of unnerving--I've only ever swatted him that once (his mother used to whack his butt far more often until I convinced her to cut it out)--yet somehow he's terrified of discipline from me. Normally I just cart him to his room for a time-out.

I think it's because I've learned to be consistent about it. It's not like I was gunning for "fear"; most of the time, he'd rather hang out with me even if I'm doing some project that'll leave him bored to tears. But when he's being bad, all it takes is a look, or me to quietly and calmly ask, "What exactly do you think you're doing?"

I guess that's the key--consistency. Don't make idle threats, whether it's timeouts, spankings, or waterboardings. Warn, and then follow through. If you don't, they learn to gamble("Is he serious?")

Corporal punishment is the absolute last resort, and if you're there, you probably f*cked up somewhere along the line. In this case, we let him get away with tantrum-based stall tactics in the past, and it was basically him going for the gold. It's been 3 years, and I haven't had a problem since.

Cevmarauder wrote:I've spanked my son once, and only once--when he was about 3, he adamantly refused to take the medication he was prescribed--and spat it out, on me, to boot. So I first held him on the couch, and told him he couldn't get up until he took it. An hour passed. Another hour passed. At least he'd stopped screaming--but still refused.

Finally I said, "Look, here's your choice: you can take the medicine, or I'm going to spank you once. Then I'll offer it again. Refuse, and you're getting 2 whacks. See the pattern?"

First time, he refused. Flip, swat, flip. "Wanna take it?" Refusal. Flip, swat, swat, flip. "Wanna take it?" Refusal. Flip, swat, swat, swat, flip. "Wanna take it?"
"Okay"
..."Hey, that didn't taste bad."

"Okay, now go to bed. Daddy's going to go downstairs, pour himself a stiff drink, have a smoke, and beat his head against the wall until he passes out."

Never had to spank him again. Simple fact of the matter is, every kid is different. With my son, he walks all over his mom--unless I'm home. I'm somehow the disciplinarian, even though I'm also the bad influence ("Daddy, can we go shoot bottle rockets?" "Hell yeah, lemme grab a beer and my zippo!")

I don't even raise my voice; it's actually kind of unnerving--I've only ever swatted him that once (his mother used to whack his butt far more often until I convinced her to cut it out)--yet somehow he's terrified of discipline from me. Normally I just cart him to his room for a time-out.

I think it's because I've learned to be consistent about it. It's not like I was gunning for "fear"; most of the time, he'd rather hang out with me even if I'm doing some project that'll leave him bored to tears. But when he's being bad, all it takes is a look, or me to quietly and calmly ask, "What exactly do you think you're doing?"

I guess that's the key--consistency. Don't make idle threats, whether it's timeouts, spankings, or waterboardings. Warn, and then follow through. If you don't, they learn to gamble("Is he serious?")

Corporal punishment is the absolute last resort, and if you're there, you probably f*cked up somewhere along the line. In this case, we let him get away with tantrum-based stall tactics in the past, and it was basically him going for the gold. It's been 3 years, and I haven't had a problem since.

Good job man. You are logical. As a parent (who spanks) it is unfortunate that parents criticize other parents methods. Every kid is different. My oldest son never needs to be spanked. My youngest son is pretty hard headed and will repeat a behavior until he gets a spanking. It shouldn't be the first step but can be in the arsenal of parenting techniques without any negative connotations.

jchamber93 wrote:I think that it is a very effective means of correction. Then again, I am one of those nuts who believes the Bible too. I think the proverb about "spare the rod, spoil the child" holds true based on my own life, seeing how my kids are turning out, and seeing how others have turned out.

The bible is your source of parental guidance? You must need to do a lot of cherry picking in order to overlook the extremely demented advice that the bible holds for parents.
Why not be firm, be fair, and be consistent, rather then beat the piss out of your kid when you are frustrated? Spare the rod now, spare the therapist later.

I was not spanked as a child and I will not spank my kids either. TRUST me time outs do work, removing kids from situations also work. Spanking in my opinion just causes fear. I've worked with kids for 13 years before having my own. And believe me, it's all about being consistent with your kids. If they throw a fir in a store you tell the, they have 2 options... Calm down or we go home. Don't calm down? Your darn right I will walk right out of that store with the kid kicking and screaming buckle them in their carseat and go straight home. When I was 6 I once threw a fit in a restaurant. My dad told me if I didn't stop we were going to the car, guess what.... We went to the car. I didn't get spanked, just removed from the situation. My dad was wise then and he still is. And my dad was whipped with belts. But to the bottom line..... No I don't thinks ANYONE (especially non parents) should be spanking kids, but then again I don't think parents should either.