NedDawg


quality posts: 34 Private Messages NedDawg

I was hoping someone, in particular someone on the Woot! payroll, could tell us what to expect of a "refurbished" product. I know it means that at least some of them were purchased and then returned for some reason, but what other ways are there for an item to be branded "refurbished"?

Can we assume that someone actually tests the returned item to see if it works (and fixes it if it doesn't) before it is resold? Or, is it just repackaged in a plain brown box and sent off for resale, and it's up to the end user/repurchaser to test it? (I swear, a lot of times it seems like the latter.)

How important is it that the warranty is from the manufacturer as opposed to the "refurbishment partner"?

Is there a difference between refurbished and factory reconditioned?

What else?

Thanks!

allgoodpeople


quality posts: 1 Private Messages allgoodpeople

good questions! i had always understood refurbished to mean it had been returned for some reason, the company returned it to new condition and then resold it.

however, after seeing the Rio fiasco, I'm not so sure *lol* That picture of the one guy's player that was all scratched up was enough to swear me off buying anything refurbed from woot.

Mind you, I'm not saying woot sold it like that knowingly. But the headache of trying to get things returned and fixed without the benefit of an actual brick and mortar store is something for me to seriously consider.

BigD


quality posts: 69 Private Messages BigD

I'll try to tackle these questions without rambling on for too long. Factory refurbished, factory recertified, factory renewed basically mean the same thing. When you buy a refurb, it doesn't necessarily mean the product was previously used or broken. Depending on the manufacturer, it could mean that it was a new, never before used product and is now listed as refurb because:


  • It is an overstocked, discontinued or End of life (EOL) product. The manufacturer does not want to disturb the market pricing for new product and requires us to list it as refurbished when it is brand new
  • There was a packaging change and the product was removed from the original retail pack and brown boxed
  • There was a software or firmware issue and product had to be recalled from store shelves and corrected.
  • The product was made for a specific customer and per a contract can't be sold in other channels as new or in a retail package, or by using the manufacturer or OEM name
  • The packaging was damaged/destroyed in transit and was reboxed

There's other reasons here but those are the main ones. And in many cases, the reasons listed above will only result in the product being labeled new brown box, new white box, new OEM, etc. This totally depends on the manufacturer and how they want to protect their channels.

Then there are products that were actually opened and or used by customers before being returned. These would include:

  • Buyers remorse returns from big chains like Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, with very liberal return policies
  • Defective product returned to retailers or the manufacturer, and repaired at the factory or at a factory-authorized repair center.

The buyers remorse returns are sometimes sold as "open box" if they are missing accessories or manuals and get minimal testing before they are resold by the retailer. Buyers remorse and defective products are typically returned to the manufacturer and are tested, cleaned, contact parts are replaced, then made complete (all accessories/manuals, remotes) before being sold as refurbished.

The answer to your 2nd question is sometimes the item is tested - specifically if it has been opened or used, had a firmware/hardware/software upgrade, or was returned as defective. And sometimes the product isn't tested - like when it is a packaging change, or if its a retail package that just got a refurb sticker slapped on it.

Warranty coverage differs for many reasons. If the product is EOL, the manufacturer just wants to be done with it, so they shorten the warranty from a 1 year (or whatever their standard warranty period was) to a 90 day or 30 day warranty. Sometimes as a condition of the sale, they only give a DOA warranty. Again, this depends on the manufacturer. If the product is repaired by a factory authorized center, the manufacturer is typically paying them to handle the warranty so they don't have to hassle with it.

I think that covers everything you asked, let me know if you have more questions.

What does refurbished or recertified mean? Click here to find out.

NedDawg


quality posts: 34 Private Messages NedDawg

Thanks, BigD. You covered my specific questions and some "what else".

holmesdog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages holmesdog

BigD - that was an excellent explanation. Perhaps you could put it in "what is woot?" and avoid another bejillion questions.

BigD


quality posts: 69 Private Messages BigD
 holmesdog wrote:
BigD - that was an excellent explanation. Perhaps you could put it in "what is woot?" and avoid another bejillion questions.


That's not a bad idea actually.

What does refurbished or recertified mean? Click here to find out.

allgoodpeople


quality posts: 1 Private Messages allgoodpeople
 BigD wrote:

That's not a bad idea actually.



You've changed the site for the better holmesdog! feel the power, FEEL THE POWER I SAY!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!

actually, all joking aside, stuff like that is one of the things that i really appreciate about the woot staff. they get down on level with their customers and talk to them like adults, rather than like customers. Snapster, GC, BigD, all those folks (I would say guys, but don't want to be gender exclusive *wink*)

well written Big D! Thanks for listening.

holmesdog


quality posts: 0 Private Messages holmesdog
 allgoodpeople wrote:


You've changed the site for the better holmesdog! feel the power, FEEL THE POWER I SAY!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!

actually, all joking aside, stuff like that is one of the things that i really appreciate about the woot staff. they get down on level with their customers and talk to them like adults, rather than like customers. Snapster, GC, BigD, all those folks (I would say guys, but don't want to be gender exclusive *wink*)

well written Big D! Thanks for listening.





Credit for the blushing smiley must go to agp who felt my pain and started the posting 101 thread. It has really been useful to quite a few of us newbies, thanks again.

ZDarryl


quality posts: 4 Private Messages ZDarryl

Thanks for the info BigD!

7+ Years
81 woots
219 items
1 order to steal1
$2,458.57 and counting!!!!!

FreeskierInVT


quality posts: 4 Private Messages FreeskierInVT

great explanation. thanks!

My Woots:
31 from woot.com
6 from shirt.woot
3 from sellout.woot
1 from wine.woot
3 B O C's- 12/25/11, 4/1/10 and... my first B O C- 11/19/09 (with a letter from woot!)

rnatalie


quality posts: 11 Private Messages rnatalie

Too bad the above explanation doesn't fit in with the actual practice at WOOT and their suppliers.

Refurb can mean anything from the above down to just plane "USED, THROWN IN A SCRAP BOX AND MAILED TO YOU."

Certified Wine Geek

d12welve


quality posts: 0 Private Messages d12welve

That was an awesome explanation!! +1 also a good question, I too wondered why I'd receive a product and there wouldn't be any 'reconditioned' or 'refurbished' stickers or stamps anywhere on the product or box.

Thanks again guys!

rlfielding


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rlfielding

Thanks for the mildly informative response, but it needs to go further to be really great:

"refurbished" appears to mean anything from "horribly disfigured but still mostly functional" to "refurbed in name only and still pristine". B&H Photo uses a handy scale of refurbishment to tell you how crappy the thing you're buying really is: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/UsedConditions.jsp.

While a similar approach may not work with woot! logistics, it would be helpful to know if the woot! staff are just completely shameless (I suspect possibly so...) and willing to sell anything, or if there are minimum standards of some kind, such as "woot! will never sell anything non-functional".



BigD wrote:I'll try to tackle these questions without rambling on for too long. Factory refurbished, factory recertified, factory renewed basically mean the same thing. When you buy a refurb, it doesn't necessarily mean the product was previously used or broken. Depending on the manufacturer, it could mean that it was a new, never before used...



MichXelle


quality posts: 37 Private Messages MichXelle
BigD wrote:I'll try to tackle these questions without rambling on for too long. Factory refurbished, factory recertified, factory renewed basically mean the same thing. When you buy a refurb, it doesn't necessarily mean the product was previously used or broken. Depending on the manufacturer, it could mean that it was a new, never before used product and is now listed as refurb because:

  • It is an overstocked, discontinued or End of life (EOL) product. The manufacturer does not want to disturb the market pricing for new product and requires us to list it as refurbished when it is brand new
  • There was a packaging change and the product was removed from the original retail pack and brown boxed
  • There was a software or firmware issue and product had to be recalled from store shelves and corrected.
  • The product was made for a specific customer and per a contract can't be sold in other channels as new or in a retail package, or by using the manufacturer or OEM name
  • The packaging was damaged/destroyed in transit and was reboxed

There's other reasons here but those are the main ones. And in many cases, the reasons listed above will only result in the product being labeled new brown box, new white box, new OEM, etc. This totally depends on the manufacturer and how they want to protect their channels.

Then there are products that were actually opened and or used by customers before being returned. These would include:

  • Buyers remorse returns from big chains like Best Buy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, with very liberal return policies
  • Defective product returned to retailers or the manufacturer, and repaired at the factory or at a factory-authorized repair center.

The buyers remorse returns are sometimes sold as "open box" if they are missing accessories or manuals and get minimal testing before they are resold by the retailer. Buyers remorse and defective products are typically returned to the manufacturer and are tested, cleaned, contact parts are replaced, then made complete (all accessories/manuals, remotes) before being sold as refurbished.

The answer to your 2nd question is sometimes the item is tested - specifically if it has been opened or used, had a firmware/hardware/software upgrade, or was returned as defective. And sometimes the product isn't tested - like when it is a packaging change, or if its a retail package that just got a refurb sticker slapped on it.

Warranty coverage differs for many reasons. If the product is EOL, the manufacturer just wants to be done with it, so they shorten the warranty from a 1 year (or whatever their standard warranty period was) to a 90 day or 30 day warranty. Sometimes as a condition of the sale, they only give a DOA warranty. Again, this depends on the manufacturer. If the product is repaired by a factory authorized center, the manufacturer is typically paying them to handle the warranty so they don't have to hassle with it.

I think that covers everything you asked, let me know if you have more questions.



That answered all of my questions about refurbs. Thank you very much Big D - Woot Staff!

OVER 550 W00T CARTFULS as of 06/25/14. You're killing us with some wonderful items W000T!

OVER 8 years on W00T shopping and The W00T Forum, since 02/06 with now a whopping 34 Quality Posts L-M-A-O! We do post quality information as do others that isn't recognized. Thanks for the 3 in 1 entire week! We're humbled. 3 additional noticed in 3 months. No more positive posts as our are not noticed.

joelle54


quality posts: 0 Private Messages joelle54

BigD explain this. Not to long ago I bought a refurbished Roomba 530 from Woot that came with a 90 day manufacture warranty. It was DOA on arrival. I called the manufacturer since Woot suggest we do that first and was told by them that Woot is not a certified seller of their products therefore they will not honor the warranty. It was void. There was nothing they could do. Imagine my shock. Now I have to ask for a supervisor and so on. The call that never ends and goes no where. Finally I decide to take it apart and noticed there was a part that was not attached properly (I guess when refurbished). After putting it back together I was shocked when I pushed the on button and off it went. Though it hasn't stopped me completely I have to say you have lost my trust. Though it says under warranty I'm finding out that's not always the case. So can you explain this warranty thing when it comes to items you are not a certified seller of?

akshatb


quality posts: 0 Private Messages akshatb

Excellent, detailed response. Thanks for the same. Unfortunately does not really help me make a purchase decision as i would happily by a repack etc but not a used return.Would be great if you guys could say a bit more than just "refurbished".. even a "customer return" or a "manuf repack" will also help..& will be much more transparent
thanks

kjrehberg


quality posts: 2 Private Messages kjrehberg

In my experience, refurbished laptops almost always have one or more of the following problems so I don't buy them anymore:

1) Stuck pixel (Acer/Gateway, HP).

2) Dark/blurry spot on screen (HP, Dell).

3) Intermittent freeze-ups (Acer/Gateway).

phillythekid


quality posts: 0 Private Messages phillythekid
NedDawg wrote:I was hoping someone, in particular someone on the Woot! payroll, could tell us what to expect of a "refurbished" product. I know it means that at least some of them were purchased and then returned for some reason, but what other ways are there for an item to be branded "refurbished"?

Can we assume that someone actually tests the returned item to see if it works (and fixes it if it doesn't) before it is resold? Or, is it just repackaged in a plain brown box and sent off for resale, and it's up to the end user/repurchaser to test it? (I swear, a lot of times it seems like the latter.)

How important is it that the warranty is from the manufacturer as opposed to the "refurbishment partner"?

Is there a difference between refurbished and factory reconditioned?

What else?

Thanks!




AWESOME question. I just now got off the phone with the Onkyo service department asking the EXACT question. Here's the deal from Onkyo... They consider refurb/reconditioned the same thing. It represents any product of theirs that was: open box only (it has to be refurbed/conditioned to ensure nothing is wrong); open box, used for a week...same thing; box damaged in shipping to store/customer...same thing; item returned for repair, customer changed mind and bought something else thus leaving the broken model with them to fix/refurb/condition and resell as a refurb unit. Per Onkyo, ALL these items must be returned to Onkyo for this refurb/recert. The check out the unit from a-z to make sure all is working correctly. Buying a brand new unit has 2 yr warranty, a refurb from THEIR SITE has a 1 year warranty ($40 for extra year). I did not ask the rep 'if I buy an Onkyo from Woot, what type warranty comes with that' because I didn't want to come right out and be ballzie like that', so it would BE GREAT to actually know that answer from the Woot folks themselves. Hope this helps. I'm curious if the same applies to Yamaha/Sony etc as well.